The reel thing

[j4]

I do not know enough about films.

I noticed this particularly while on holiday, as my travelling companion frequently tried to refer to films that she assumed I would have seen, and more and more I found myself apologising for being whatever the filmic equivalent of "poorly-read" is. ("Poorly-viewed" makes me think of frosted glass, and anyway, you know what I mean.) But it's something that happens quite often: people allude to films in the confident belief that they are accessing shared cultural reference points, and my only response is an unbecomingly blank look.

I'm also aware that often when I do watch films which everybody else has raved about, I feel as though I'm missing something. Obviously there are differences of taste, but with literature (and, in some genres, music) I feel as though I can make a critical judgement which satisfies me (I'm not particularly concerned whether other people's opinions differ) -- that is, I can say "I feel that I have read/heard and understood this and I am confident that my indifference to it or dislike of it is a matter of personal taste, rather than a sign that I am missing something which is central to appreciating it." (Goodness, that sounds arrogant. I don't mean it as such.)

Now I'm not really asking for recommendations of Wicked Cool Films You Like, because I've probably got enough of those to keep me going for the next 200 years, and unfortunately I'm only likely to live for another 60-odd of those. What I'm asking for is something slightly different: what films do you, O film-viewing people of my readership, regard as central to understanding film as a medium? Or, perhaps, which films are most central to the cultural consciousness of people in the English-speaking Western world^[1]? What films would you be horrified to discover that somebody in my cultural context hadn't seen?

^[1] I'm specifying this because one of my reasons for asking is that film is an area where, at the risk of sounding melodramatic, I feel like an outsider in my own culture. I feel as though there are swathes of cultural referents which I am entirely missing because I'm so lacking in filmic knowledge. For other cultures I'm happier to accept that I will lack a lot of shared reference points.

Yes, everybody's answers are going to differ. I'm not really interested in producing a definitive list; rather just seeing what people suggest. I'm also interested to know reasons for your choices -- a list of films without any explanation will tell me nothing if I haven't seen them, and won't motivate me to see them.

Does this rambly and multifaceted question make any sense?

Comments

[rysmiel.livejournal.com]

Blast, that got away from me half-done.

I was going to say, possibly maybe, if you as a practising martial artist can stand to see showy martial arts scenes stylised most of the way to ballet, Hero, which is still out in cinemas here, would be worth your seeing. In that it does some stunningly gorgeous visual things, some really nice things at the level of multiple renditions of the same story and how they echo and interact, and it has a coherent and cogent philosophical point to make - though I suspect much more so if one speaks Mandarin rather than having to rely on subtitles. It's also something that will be completely bloody wasted on video.

Clockwork Orange is certainly good, and having it to hand is a plus for this sort of discussion. I'd not recopmmend it to you so highly as the other two because it really is Very Nasty Indeed, contentwise, on levels I suspect might get to you and be depressing.

[burkesworks.livejournal.com]

Then again, much of the reason that Get Shorty works is that it's based on an Elmore Leonard book, and Mr. Leonard has the right kind of ear for such things. A cracking cast helps a lot too; IIRC wasn't this where James Gandolfini made his mark before going on to star as Tony Soprano?
Talking of Elmore Leonard, am I the only person that remembers a really enjoyable series called Maximum Bob on BBC2 about ten years ago, with Beau Bridges as a Deep South hanging judge type?

[addedentry.livejournal.com]

FFS, it's not a moral issue.

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

My experience is that while film is a medium in which to tell a story, the key part is still the story: you need a good story. Then you can worry about telling it well (good director, good actors, good music).

So, i'm not much of a film-head, but i'm a sucker for a good movie, especially if it's funny. Conversely, i tend to frown on movies that are just "idea" movies, much as i frown on "idea" books. "Lost In Translation", for example, was a movie that had a wonderful idea (lovelorn Americans in Tokyo suffering from culture shock meet), but was short on plot and thus was about 45 minutes too long.

So, i don't know what to recommend for "film as a medium". I think i'll go with "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" (by the same writer as "Being John Malkovich", which someone else recommended and i concur). As for the cultural stuff, i really don't know if the stuff on this side of the pond would be the same as on the other. I think "The Blues Brothers" is a key movie for too many reasons, but primarily because it's funny as hell and it's a fantastic musical, but while the blues spent quite some time growing up in England, i'm not sure how relevant they are anymore over there.

[rmc28]

Ditto, with regard to the Princess Bride

Re: flimsies

[vinaigrettegirl.livejournal.com]

I've never seen Le Coeur en Hiver in English but for some weird reason the title is often translated in various listings, so I did too, sorry.

Being manipulated by trusted people in safe situations is one thing - there are, as you say, Big Cans-O'-Worms on those shelves - but a film theatre in the dark with extraLOUDspeakers and a bunch of total strangers means the only 'stop' button is leaving [shuffle shuffle excusemeexcusemeexcusemeohsorry excuse me shuffle shuffle tiptoe up ramp inthedarkWALLshitwhere's the EXIT sign oh thank God]. A book allows you the time for inner dialogue in a way which I find a film cannot.

Portrayed versus implied violence: both are generally horrible, most are overdone, but a thriller without menace isn't a thriller. I don't think anyone will ever make a good version of Allingham's The Tiger in the Smoke: there's some actual violence, and an immense amount of implied violence both in the small and large scale, and although it is a book of entertainment it's insidiously a form of social commentary as well.

I agree that a book can affect one for years; so can films; but I can think of many books which still haunt me but haven't left me a lesser or demeaned person, and a few films I have seen and sat through the very thought of which leave me repulsed, wishing I hadn't seen them at all, wondering why they were believed to be critical or commercial successes. Feh.

Bambi needs only to be seen as Bambi Meets Godzilla, AFAIC :-) but it won't take long...

death and chess

[vinaigrettegirl.livejournal.com]

Mediaeval imagery brought to life - yay, Bergman.

[oldbloke.livejournal.com]

I noticed "Duel" was on again last night. That was interesting, in its way.
Have you seen "Two Lane Blacktop" ? A favourite of mine, dunno what it tells you about the medium, though I can't think of many other films quite like it.
Bring Me The Head Of Alfredo Garcia is fun, too.
And ...
IF ANYBODY SEES "CALIFORNIA SPLIT" IN THE SCHEDULES, TAPE IT FOR ME IN CASE I MISS IT. I WILL PAY FOR THE TAPE AND THE POSTAGE AND A BIT ON TOP.

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

Bambi is upstairs on the shelf with the Kipper videos if you feel the need to see it any time soon. If it makes you feel any better I didn't see it until I was 21 (and didn't see Grease all the way through until I was 25, and still haven't seen the beginning of The Sound Of Music) but in our joint defence, videos were far less accessible in our youth. Much more opportunity to see these things now.

Shawshank

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

Very faithful apart from inexplicably leaving Red's dialogue exactly as written even though it clearly didn't fit Morgan Freeman. It made it funny where it wasn't really meant to be, IMO. (But not terrible, or even noticeable to anyone who hadn't read the novella, I suspect.)

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

But have you seen Nightingales? Can you quote it? Do you obsessively hoard a tape with most if not all* of the episodes on? ;-)

(*I cannot remember if I taped all of them because I foolishly thought 'oh, it'll be on again at some point' sometimes. I hope I did because AFAIK it's been on exactly three times.)

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

No, I remember it too. I think I missed exactly one episode (which for that point in my life = Intense Devotion).

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

I often think I'm wasting time watching a film when I could be doing something else, but then I realise I've seen no films lately. So I try to make an effort to just watch one and do nothing else. After all, I don't think "I could be doing laundry" when I'm reading. Maybe that's part of it, you don't have the *doodah* (is it a habit? an inclination? a gene??) that makes you treat watching a film as an activity as valid as doing any one other thing by itself. There's music in most films, you can watch the action and listen to the soundtrack if you must multitask everything you do. ;-) Or take up knitting and watch while you knit...

Learning to read film can be as interesting as learning to really read a book - actively look for visual clues in The Sixth Sense for instance, and you won't see it the same way again. (They're a wee bit hamfisted but interesting nonetheless.) No spoilers here but if you want to know what I'm on about Google will give you detailed breakdowns of symbolism and clues in it, or other films. The IMDB has a lot of data on such things, too. Se7en is another example of a multi-layered 'modern' film that bears a lot of 'textual' analysis, if that appeals, ditto Memento, Fight Club, Being John Malkovich and similarly clever films.

Musicals: that was just a list of the first few to spring to mind, largely because the DVDs or videos were staring me in the face. I would happily extend the recommendation to almost anything in the genre. Particularly if it stars Howard Keel. ;-)

[arnhem.livejournal.com]

And in a slightly different area, Peter Greenaway, particularly Drowning by Numbers.

[imc.livejournal.com]

Bambi is upstairs on the shelf

Yeah, I've seen the box - I just haven't seen the film. :-)

and didn't see Grease all the way through until I was 25

I haven't seen it at all, as you know.

still haven't seen the beginning of The Sound Of Music

Me neither.

videos were far less accessible in our youth

We didn't even have a video player/recorder until (I think) 1989 [by which time I was spending half my year in Oxford and of course didn't have one there].

[jiggery-pokery.livejournal.com]

Mmm - I can think of at least three people on my Friends list who are somewhere between content and proud to be iffilmerate, to coin a nonce word.

Speaking as someone who watches possibly ten films a year, so definitely on the low side of filmic literacy, I strongly suspect that there is no set course which will guarantee you understanding of films at large. Spielberg said about his A.I. that he wouldn't mind if people came out of the cinema saying they didn't like it, but he would mind if people came out of the cinems saying they didn't get it. I didn't have the faintest.

Really I tend not to approve of the concept of making assumptions about what cultural icons people will know. I choose my friends and I care about whether I can converse with them, not with arbitrary everypersons. I am much happier being iffilmerate than iggeekerate.

[j4.livejournal.com]

Dear me, did I hit a nerve?

"Moral equivalent" (if that's what you're latching on to) was sloppy and colloquial use of English, for which I won't apologise, because I suspect 99% of my readership didn't even notice, and I'm happy with a 99% hit-rate. So sue me.

On the other hand, I do think it's lazy of me to have made so little effort to investigate something which is culturally significant to such a high proportion of my peers. Maybe that is a moral issue -- I feel I have some kind of moral responsibility to myself (I don't think anybody else gives a toss) to push the boundaries of my knowledge and awareness, and to learn more about the things that matter to the people around me. At heart, though, I think it's less a moral issue than the personal feeling that if I wasn't striving for new experiences then I'd be as good as dead.

If it is a moral judgement, however, it's not one that I am imposing on other people. I'm sure most people have more interesting goals than post-bourgeois self-improvement in their lives to keep them going. And as for the rest, well, I don't understand the idea of being happy to stand still and do nothing, but I respect people's right to choose it.

[burkesworks.livejournal.com]

> Do you obsessively hoard a tape with most if not all* of the episodes on? ;-)

There might be a blank VHS tape heading in your general direction pretty soon! Could very much do with these, most unlikely to be repeated again and I doubt very much whether this most surreal of comedies will ever make it to DVD.

[oldbloke.livejournal.com]

I never really got into Nightingales. Dunno why.

All I want is to want nothing

[addedentry.livejournal.com]

Fair enough. I try to remind myself that it's better to enjoy what I have read and seen and heard than to agonise about what I never will, but it's hard to remember.

Re: Shawshank

[geekette8.livejournal.com]

Yep, I'd not read the book and didn't notice anything out of context or unusual about it.

[geekette8.livejournal.com]

*nods* That's fair enough; the thing is I know I am missing some things (I'm not sensitive to technique etc. in film in the way that I am in literature and music) so in a lot of cases, for me, I tend to suspect that it is more than just personal taste.

Hmm, OK, you're probably right... but in that case I'm not sensitive to technique in literature or music either, which is a bit depressing. :-)

Hey, I can spot well-written software, does that help? :-)

[k425.livejournal.com]

I don't think I'd be horrified about anything. Surprised, perhaps. Like, say, I'd be surprised if you said you hadn't seen The Italian Job but I wouldn't be horrified.

I haven't got my brain in gear enough to suggest anything. Except steer clear of Gone With The Wind. Perhaps it was just me but I just wanted to slap Scarlet.