(no subject)

[j4]

The builders still haven't bothered finishing the things they said they'd finish a week ago. We're supposed to move in on Tuesday.

Okay, they've finished plastering/painting the ceilings (taking huge chunks out of all the walls in the process, and leaving all the light-fittings hanging out) and they've put the boiler in (taking more chunks out of the walls including a large hole in the front wall, and ripping out some of the skirting boards). The boiler may even work, but it can only be plugged in with a duct-taped-together power cable stretching through two rooms, so it's a bit hard to tell. Somewhere along the line they nicked one of our radiators (which we didn't particularly want there anyway, but you know, it's the principle of the thing). I said there was no need to replace it, and now they have replaced it, and will probably expect to be paid for it. They've also left every single room in the house several inches thick in plaster-dust and ground-in dirt, walls splattered with plaster and general grime, etc.

I don't think there's any way we can delay the move now, but I also don't see how we can move in on Tuesday/Wednesday (it's a two-day move). We could spend all tomorrow cleaning the house, but there's no point if they really are (as promised) going to come back on Monday and patch things up, because they'll just trash everything again. And if they don't patch things up, then we have to move into a house which still has gaping holes in all the walls, and somehow move everything out again when we get some more builders in to fix everything -- who will not only trash the house again but trash all our stuff as well this time.

I feel sick and tearful and angry every time I think about any of it. We bought a shabby-but-liveable-in house, and we've wasted thousands of pounds making it unliveable-in, and now we have to live in it anyway. If I'd known it was going to be this awful we could have hung on to this flat for another two months while we got the house sorted out, but it's too late for that now.

I suppose this is only what I deserve for being too fucking incompetent to do my own plastering, and too stupid to know how to tell whether builders are going to be useless (I trusted the recommendation of lots of people at work), but it's utterly miserable. I don't want to live in a house that's falling to pieces around me, where everything is covered in dust. I spend enough time feeling as though I'm carrying suitcases full of sand around with me, I don't need someone to make the metaphor real.

People keep making kind offers of help and suggesting "painting parties", but what we need is an electrician and a plasterer who can come out at zero notice and won't charge the earth, and some kind of miracle by which Monday can be made to last for approximately 72 hours.

I just don't know what to do.

ETA: Owen points out that we can't delay the move because the movers would charge us sixty percent of the cost of the move to change the date at this short notice.

Comments

[k425.livejournal.com]

Very few people can do their own plastering. OldBloke's pretty competent at many things, but not plastering.

I think the first thing I'd do in your position is tell the builders I won't be paying until they've made good.

I really sympathise - we moved in here and then had to move everything on a daily basis so the builders could come in and strengthen the floors. They said it would take a week and it took a fortnight and was hell. We refused to pay extra for the extra work they had to do because they'd given a quote, not an estimate.

[j4.livejournal.com]

tell the builders I won't be paying until they've made good

But that means keeping them in the house while we're trying to live in it! And at the current rate of progress it would take weeks. Once I'm actually in there, I don't want them anywhere near it (or me) ever again. I don't want to live in a house with holes in the walls, but I'd rather that than a house full of builders.

No proper quotes or even written-down estimates here, it was all just words. I trusted this guy and his troupe of idiots because everybody at work said they were excellent.

[oldbloke.livejournal.com]

But if you do pay them you won't see them again until they've got absolutely nothing else on and you've had a solicitor threaten them. DON'T PAY THEM until you're happy with it ALL.
Put what you can into storage and kip with friends for a couple of weeks.

[j4.livejournal.com]

But if you do pay them you won't see them again

Oh I know. But right now I'd pay not to see them again. :-( Then maybe we could get somebody more reliable in to fix things.

We can't just put things in storage, there's a four-bedroom flat's worth of stuff! We'd spend thousands of pounds on the storage (and the second removal when we had to get it all out of storage) and still not have the house done and still have to pay someone (them or someone else) to fix things.

A solicitor would just laugh -- we don't have any kind of contract, it's been all words and cash.

[oldbloke.livejournal.com]

Oh, well, don't pay them , pay somebody else to fix their mess /first/, subtract that from their bill, give them the difference (if any).
With no paperwork they can't pressure you any more than you can them.

[juggzy.livejournal.com]

If you don't have any contract, then they can't argue about the terms, either. You have the money. They don't. If there's no contract, they can't argue that you owe them the money, either. Don't give it to them.

[tigerfort.livejournal.com]

What Oldbloke and juggzy said. And *hugs*.

[keirf.livejournal.com]

My grandfather was a plasterer, as were his six brothers. It's probably one of the most skilled building jobs there is.

[juggzy.livejournal.com]

Is your lease up? Otherwise, try talking to the moving people and see if they can put off for a week.

[j4.livejournal.com]

We've agreed to give the keys back on 15th, but we could probably plead for a few extra days in the flat because the letting agent has only advertised it as available from the 30th.

The other problem is that I've got this week off work for the move & I can't take a second week off. :-(

[juggzy.livejournal.com]

If you can't change the moving date (and it is worth asking) then just don't pay the builders the money until they get it fixed, furniture in situ and all.

They missed the deadline - their problem. If they want the money then they need to fix their problem.

Do make sure you document the mess the house is in on the day before you move in. Apart from taking pictures, the hassle to this is not giving them the money and waiting for them to sue for it. Or waiting for them to fix the mess.

[emperor]

I'm sorry your builders haven't finished on time :(

[juggzy.livejournal.com]

Also, take pictures of the state it is in now and threaten to move into a hotel, at their cost, until it is finished.

[j4.livejournal.com]

I can't really threaten them with anything, we don't have a language in common. The chap who's managing them (who I'm dealing with) would just laugh. Also, they all know as well as I do that we can't move all our stuff into a hotel/storage.

[oldbloke.livejournal.com]

Yes, you can. It's only money, you might be very poor for a while but your solicitor will tell the bloke who'd laugh at you that he's paying in the end.

[j4.livejournal.com]

you might be very poor for a while

We have to be able to pay the mortgage! And the stress of spending months having no money and trying to evade the mortgage (in the hope of getting some money back in the end, but with the risk of losing it all and having to pay court costs on top) would make me even more ill than I already am.

[juggzy.livejournal.com]

What is going to make you iller?

[j4.livejournal.com]

Stress.

[juggzy.livejournal.com]

I realise it's a horrible situation, and I really do feel for you because I know that I am not looking forward to having to go through similar stuff in a few months time, but it's the situation you've got, and oldbloke and myself are looking at ways to reduce the stress and get the situation fixed as quickly as possible.

Sources of stress: Having to spend more money, through either living in a B&B or rejigging the removal date, living in a half finished house in a sort of camping out style.

Now, I believe (as I think does oldbloke) that any money you spend now to relieve the living in a half-finished house is recuperable from the builders. I think you could make a good case for charging them for the costs of the B&B or the extra removal costs. You hold the upper hand here because you then add the costs into the building costs and simply pay them less than you have promised. As there is no contract, they will have to take you to court to recuperate that; it would be a civil case, I think, so the whole thing would depend on what the judge thinks reasonable; also it would cost them to take you to court so simply not worth their while.

Secondly, if you could move in and live in a camping out style it would be awful, but would improve with time. I would still be tempted to reduce the amount you paid them, but if you move in you have less solid grounds on which to do it - if you move to a B&B for a couple of weeks you have a solid thing to 'charge' them for - costs of the B&B, costs of storage and added moving costs. However, the moving in is less hassle for all the reasons you have given above.

I'm fairly certain that if you put it to them in these terms, they'd move heaven and hell to make a difference and get out of there as quickly as possible. You could then offer a 'compromise' - you move your stuff in, in boxes, and leave it there, with the furniture covered in dust sheets, while you and Owen live in a B&B until they have finished the house to your satisfaction. In a negotiation, I wouldn't put this as the first option, but move to it as a compromise option. I would speak to them and lay out in financial terms what their tardiness is costing you, and what you are going to withhold from the final payment, offering the using the house as storage as a compromise while you live in a B&B for however long it takes.

I can practically guarantee it would take less than a week in this final case.

I would like to speak to them for you. Please let me do that.

[shermarama]

What this woman says. This is sense. The movers can move stuff into the house and it can stay in a packed-shape heap, not accumulating too much dust, while you wait for them to finish sorting it out.

I have to say, though, building work, especially plastering, creates dust and disruption. They couldn't rebuild the inside of the house for you without dust and disruption. The fact that there is dust and disruption is not some sort of builder-related nightmare. It will go away again, when they have finished the job and there has been hoovering.

[khalinche.livejournal.com]

All horrible. I am afraid I have nothing more useful to offer than internet-hugs and a photo of many badgers (http://www.photobasement.com/badger-badger-badger/).

[j4.livejournal.com]

Badgers! That's what I want our patio to look like. Covered in badgers.

[atreic.livejournal.com]

That's awful. I'm so sorry to hear this.

This is poorly thought out advice. If it doesn't work because of stuff I don't know, please ignore it.

0) Pack seperately enough stuff to live for a week or so. 5 days worth of cloths, one plate, bowl, knife and fork each, etc. As though you were holidaying in a tent.

1) Pressurise the builders to finish one room, ASAP.

2) Move all the stuff on the date as arranged, but stick the majority of it in boxes in the finished room.

3) Find somewhere else to live for a while. Either extend the lease on the current flat, or go and live in a B+B for a week, or similar. These are horribly expensive, but when you think about the amount you are spending on moving and decorating it is a drop in the ocean. If it isn't sustainable because of your current financial situation, which I know nothing about, friends will help. We could help. Live with the stuff you packed in (0)

4) Fix the building doom. I don't know how. Maybe the current builders get their act together, or maybe you sack them and try and get some different builders. Or maybe you really do have a decorating party with all your friends. I don't know if you can set the builders deadlines like 'sort out this room on this day, or we get someone else / pay you 50% less etc'.

5) Unpack All Your Stuff.

Hmm. I have read this and it all sounds rather naive. But maybe the fact that everyone else in your situation would feel horribly impotent and have no ideas either might be comforting in a black way? Ah well. Have some more *hugs* :-(

[olithered.livejournal.com]

Sorry to hear that you're having so much strife! Building things always seems to take longer than expected, even with the best trademen we've had there has been a little over-run. Sometimes this is due to things outside of their control (eg: the weather or some suppliers).

It sounds like it should not be a surprise to them that you are moving on Tuesday...

I think atreic has some good ideas! Make sure they finish (or at least clean) one big room and pile everything you can into that. Then go and find a B+B for a week, because living on top of the mess when they're trying to finish things off will not be fun for you or them and may easily make it much slower. Deduct that cost from whatever you are paying them and repeat the following week if necessary.

Speak to citizens advice and/or a solicitor so that you at least know where you stand or what your options are. It is much easier to negotiate based on facts rather than guesses.

If they really are useless then simply don't pay them. Use the money instead to have someone good come and fix up the bare minimum to live with (hot water, heating, etc).

One way to find tradesmen is to ask at the counter of a local builders merchant. Sometimes they have lists of recommended fitters to hand out and/or they might be happy to chat. Mention that you've had a bad experience and don't want the same again.

Good luck with it all!

[ultraruby.livejournal.com]

Oh man. I'm so sorry things aren't going to plan, and that you feel so awful about it.

I don't have much practical advice really; we moved into our house when it was quite a state then proceeded to rip bits out of it room by room. of course everything took longer than it was meant to and though the builders we got were basically ok they took way longer than planned and they got in a plumber so bad that it was me, looking upward at 2am (through the space where the kitchen ceiling/bathroom floor used to be - he put his foot through it and the whole thing collapsed) that had to point out that he had plumbed all the pipes in one big closed circle.

We basically camped in our living room for ages and ages - made it as dust free as possible, put the toaster, microwave and kettle on the table for our kitchen, put the bed in the corner behind a curtain on a string, lived out of suitcases. It was fun for a bit, then annoying, then tolerable, than totally horrid, but the situation improved in the end, and it will for you too.

It is VERY difficult to keep a brave face though these things, and it's horrible to feel like you're supposed to be all shiny and optimistic like those people on home programmes on the telly or whatever, and oh my GOD the dust drives you mad and makes your hair literally stand on end. But. You'll get through it. Whatever you choose to do or try to do or eventually end up having to do, you'll get through the other side and sooner or later you will have your house in one piece, and it will become your proper beautiful home.

space

[crouchinglynx.livejournal.com]

If you are looking at alternative storage places, then I have more space than I realistically need in my front room - not a four-bed-flat's worth, but enough for a few carloads.

[venta.livejournal.com]

That sounds truly awful - but please don't beat yourself up about it; many, many people (a) can't plaster and (b) have been screwed over by builders. It's not particular ineptitude or stupidity on your part.

If you end up living in a sort of camping-out style, remember that we're about 90 seconds away, and can if necessary provide things like a spare room which (though a little beset with boxes) doesn't have holes in the walls if you want to run away for a night or two. If there's anything practical in the way of help we can offer, shout. We can also offer coffee/tea/dinner/a darkened room and sympathetic ears if you want to come and bawl in between bouts of dealing with builders (either/both of you).

[taimatsu]

I'm so sorry this has happened. I can't give any advice or suggestions you haven't heard already; I probably can't realistically do much to help, but of course I will, like a shot, if I can. I hope you manage to work out a bearable way to deal with all this and come out the other side.

[qatsi.livejournal.com]

This all sounds awful, and makes me feel really lucky with the bits of work I've had done. Even though, at the moment, we have a 5-year old (and consequently out of warranty) toilet with non-standard valves whose cistern doesn't fill and therefore doesn't work in a way in which the plumber can't explain and the manufacturer's helpline insists is not possible (it's only one of three toilets in the house, to put things in perspective). I don't necessarily advocate the detail of the quotation below, all I can offer is its ultimate sentiment:

Philip Henslowe: Mr. Fennyman, allow me to explain about the theatre business. The natural condition is one of insurmountable obstacles on the road to imminent disaster.
Hugh Fennyman: So what do we do?
Philip Henslowe: Nothing. Strangely enough, it all turns out well.
Hugh Fennyman: How?
Philip Henslowe: I don't know. It's a mystery.

[camellia-uk.livejournal.com]

Ugh. There's probably not much I can do to help (being the other end of the country and having no car), but I have some possible words of hope from Ben who's been through the whole nightmare of needing tons of work doing to the house (and wouldn't do his own plastering, it looks simple but you apparently need to be incredibly skilled to get it right so it doesn't need doing again). He said that his plasterers seemed to be taking ages and causing huge mess without doing anything, but then did actually do the work in an amazingly short space of time, they can be very quick when they have to. So here's hoping, fingers crossed... :-S
*sends good vibes, badgers, tea and hugs...*

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Belated sympathy. I'm sorry.