Study in blue

[j4]

Seeing hoiho's enthusiasm for his PhD application, and reading marnameow's post about wanting to study again, is really bringing home to me how much I miss studying. I originally wanted to do postgrad work in English, but my tutors talked me out of it (on the grounds that people only stood a chance of getting funding if they got a First, and they didn't think I should count on getting one); so I left, and got a job, and now I'm still in that job, and I feel as though I've achieved precisely nothing in the 3+ years I've been doing it.

The problem is, I don't think I'd know how to study any more. And I certainly wouldn't know how to begin writing about my "current research interests" as I'd have to do if I wanted to apply to do postgrad study -- basically, looking at the application forms and requirements, I need to be doing research in order to start doing research. Which means I should be doing it in my spare time while I'm working ... and I simply don't have the energy. Which, of course, means I'm not capable of doing postgrad study anyway: if I can't make the time/energy to study now, there's no way I could do a postgraduate degree.

I have so many ideas for things I want to write about, but I no longer seem to be able to put them into words. And if I do try to put them into words, the ideas seem to shrink and shrink until they're the kind of ideas that 14-year-olds would scorn to bother with for GCSE coursework.

I wish I could just make myself accept the fact that I'm not an intellectual, and never will be. Yes, I was passable at my schoolwork; that doesn't mean I can compete with adults. ... I wish I could stop thinking altogether.

Comments

[hoiho.livejournal.com]

And I certainly wouldn't know how to begin writing about my "current research interests" as I'd have to do if I wanted to apply to do postgrad study -- basically, looking at the application forms and requirements, I need to be doing research in order to start doing research.

You must be looking at different kind of forms from the ones I've got; mine just wanted to know what degrees I done, when, where, and then what I was proposing to do. And then I have go off and gather some academic references. It certainly didnlt ask about current research interests.

In my experience, if you have even a germ of an idea, possible supervisors are fairly happy to talk to you about it, as soon as they have ascertained that you have Clue.

[j4.livejournal.com]

You must be looking at different kind of forms from the ones I've got;

Hardly really surprising given that we do completely different subjects!

mine just wanted to know what degrees I done,

Hah. I don't have a list of previous degrees. I have one degree. Maybe that's why they need some other indication of what I've done with my time since leaving university (answer: nothing). The last form I looked at (for an MA in Linguistics at Cambridge) also needed two recent pieces of academic writing -- essays if I was still a student, publications if not.

as soon as they have ascertained that you have Clue.

I guess there's my problem, then.

[hoiho.livejournal.com]

Hardly really surprising given that we do completely different subjects!

I dunno; the form I have in front of me is for postgrad study in all schools of Edinburgh University.

As far as I can see, since you've been working for the short time since graduation, giving them your undergrad work would seem quite reasonable.

If in doubt, the thing to do is to ask the department contact for the degree what you would need to provide, rather than second guessing what they really want.

Is it an MA by research, or by teaching, or a combination?

[j4.livejournal.com]

As far as I can see, since you've been working for the short time since graduation, giving them your undergrad work would seem quite reasonable.

Although that basically says "I've done nothing since graduating".

If in doubt, the thing to do is to ask the department contact for the degree what you would need to provide, rather than second guessing what they really want.

Last time I did that, the person I spoke to said that they supposed if I really had nothing else, then essays from my degree would probably suffice, though my degree was a long time ago, and really they'd prefer something more recent, and couldn't I just write some more essays?

Is it an MA by research, or by teaching, or a combination?

Last one I looked at was a combination.

[hoiho.livejournal.com]

my degree was a long time ago

Jesus. My degree was nearly 20 years ago - where does that leave me?

Last time I did that, the person I spoke to said that they supposed if I really had nothing else, then essays from my degree would probably suffice, though my degree was a long time ago, and really they'd prefer something more recent, and couldn't I just write some more essays?>/CITE>

Sniffy bastards. Is that just Cambridge? as it doesn't sound like the departments I know elsewhere.

[j4.livejournal.com]

My degree was nearly 20 years ago

Yes, but a) you did more than just an undergraduate degree when you were still studying, you've already proved you can study at a postgrad level; and b) you've been working in your field for those 20 years. Even if you haven't been working in exactly the areas that you want to study in, you've been coding, designing code, etc.; you've kept pace with what's happening in the field. The closest I've come to Eng. Lang. & Lit., in the three years since I graduated, is shuffling bits of paper which happen to have poems on them.

Is that just Cambridge?

That was Cambridge; I don't know if it's just Cambridge.

[j4.livejournal.com]

academic references

And that's a whole nother problem -- I talked to my tutor a couple of years ago about the possibility of going back to studying, and she really wasn't terribly encouraging. I doubt if she'd give me a good reference. And unlike you, I don't have tutors from my other degrees (and/or employers from 20 years of employment relevant to my field of study) to give me references instead.

[hoiho.livejournal.com]

They don't have to be encouraging to you - they just have to professionally assess you and what they know of you, and the department you're applying to use it as part of their decision. There could be many reasons for not encouraging you.

I mean, given your degree, she can hardly say "this girls thick, and couldn't hack it" can she?

People seldom give poor references unless they are really well deserved. Especially so nowadays, when the subject has the right to see them under the DPA.

[j4.livejournal.com]

I mean, given your degree, she can hardly say "this girls thick, and couldn't hack it" can she?

Well, she could say "This girl couldn't really stand up to the pressure of academic study, she had to redo a year of her degree; she was okay when people were telling her what to write but she's not capable of self-directed study, and she doesn't really have anything to offer in the way of original thought/research." You don't need to be original to get an u/grad degree.

People seldom give poor references unless they are really well deserved.

I suspect I'd have got short shrift if I'd told you that when you were worrying about references.

[hoiho.livejournal.com]

You don't need to be original to get an u/grad degree.

You do need to be good to get a first.

And I got my post grad without much in the way of originality.

I suspect I'd have got short shrift if I'd told you that when you were worrying about references.

Perhaps; but then, my MSc was demonstrably piss-poor...

[j4.livejournal.com]

You do need to be good to get a first.

But good at what? You need to be good at writing essays which somebody has basically handed to you on a plate. In fact, you can get away with being only reasonably good at that, and then being lucky in the exam with what questions are offered. You don't necessarily have to be any good at the things which make a good researcher.

[hoiho.livejournal.com]

If that's really the case, then they're giving out firsts out in a way thay didn't 20 years ago. Simple knowledge of facts and ideas should not get you a first.

[j4.livejournal.com]

they're giving out firsts out in a way thay didn't 20 years ago.

I thought it was pretty much taken as read now that standards have slipped so far as to make modern education worthless, and that any fool can get a degree?

("Modern education", of course, begins 3 years after one left full-time education...)

[hoiho.livejournal.com]

Quite so: why d'you think I've waited so long before looking at a PhD?

[j4.livejournal.com]

Given the rate of standards slippage and the elapsed time between present day and the end of your full-time education, I calculate that a modern "PhD" will be approximately equivalent to what I believe was called the "Eleven Plus" in your day...

(Yes, yes, I know, you didn't do the Eleven Plus, because Scottish education is BETTER THAN THAT.)

[hoiho.livejournal.com]

Not better, just different.

[vyvyan.livejournal.com]

The criteria for awarding Firsts for exam essays at Cambridge that I've seen (in ASNaC and Linguistics) do emphasize originality. I remember when I was co-marking essays with another linguistics chap a few years ago, we often agonised over whether we could reasonably give a borderline First to an essay which was thoroughly competent, accurate, well-illustrated, well-organised, copious and highly relevant to the question, but which didn't show any evidence of original thought! We usually ended up giving them very high 2.1s instead, unless the question was particularly difficult.
So unless English at Oxford is utterly different, I'd have expected your First indicated that you demonstrated originality in your exams.